Curse

Carboplatin · Apr 10, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

I know i am not the only person to borrow heros from another account to have 6 heros + 1 player and clear FOW. Nor is this a thread to brag or to farm.

This is simply me asking for some suggestions of hero combinations that would speed up this little project of mine and to invite people to try the same and see what times they get. wanna race??

I've only been able to cut it down to 2:10min in NM. I've been using a build similar to the one i see [sms] using to clear. except my heros can't ursan.

I know you can do HM in 55 min with ursan, but ursan is boring so i rather have some fun coming up with builds.

I have a warrior in the screenshot because my second accoutn don't have nightfalls so no paragons skills.

the 2 paras are cruel spears
1. cruel speal
2. spear of lightning
3. spear of redemtion
4. AR
5. Rez
6. fall back
7. Signet of distraction
8. signet of disruption

Kahmu - orders + arcane zeal + support(heals)

Warrior - Eviscerate + interrupts ( prophesies skills only )

Necro - prot monk ( prophesies skills only )

Ogden - Woh Monk ( prophesies skills only )

so any suggestion to make this faster? i want to get it down to 1:30. I don't like to micro the heros, just natural AI.

I would also lilke to see if anyone would like to led me their fully runed/skilled heros, if so leave ign

Racthoh · Apr 10, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Consumables would speed it up a bit.

I also wouldn't run any melee heroes as they get confused easily by all of the AoE in FoW.

Richardt · Apr 10, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Also looks like you got alot of extra healing too. Instead of setting up your Necro as a protter, why not set her up as a SS? I see very little in the way of hex removal from the mobs down there.

Warrior heroes are well known for running about the map in confusion. Since your primary account has NF, why not change out your two warriors with two paragons? Have one run say Empathic Removal for getting rid of SS (unless you have someone else that does that) and the other Stunning Strike or Cruel Spear.

Experiment and see what groups you need to kill/what you don't need to kill. Sometimes you can scare up a couple minutes just from that.

Carboplatin · Apr 10, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

sry for the confusion, I've long switched out the two warriors from my primary account to the 2 paragons heros and that is how i got the 2hr 10min.

The reason why i set up the necro as a prot is to use the hex removals. The only things that threatens the party are

1. SS
2. Abyassals
3. MS from the hydras

i've tried to replace kahmu with splinter barrage and also a SH ele,
neither one gave any true speed improvements.

Consumables are possible, but i rather rely on the build then the cons.

Any thoughts on Sins? i would imagine their DPS would be higher, but the problems would be

1. the heros AI, and melee scatter from the monks zealots fires.
2. sustainable build where i can go from mob to mob with no breaks, that is the reason i used a nec protter for the soul reaping. The ele and ranger couldn't keep up at the speed of battle. i run from mob to mob using fall back.

i wanted to do turret rangers, but since the last nerf, their dps is lacking.
so paragons are the only options?

Richardt · Apr 10, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Ah I should've thought that's what the necro was doing-I've used a similar build before.

I have a preference towards Necros and Paras-both have fantastic energy management, can deal a ton of damage. Throw in a Rit for some support and you can tear through mobs like crazy. They're not the only way though.

Warrior heroes are good, but like Rac and me pointed out, they have a tendency to run all over the place to escape AoE, and if a monk is hiding behind-say another monsters-they're not smart enough to go around.

A ranged hero on the other hand will still move out of AoE-but not as much.

Sin heroes are an interesting choice. I don't have much experience there, so I'll leave heavy details to more experienced hands. The only thing I can say is that since they're still melee, I'd imagine they would have the same problems as a warrior.

From your screen, it looks like you went into the spider cave, then go the shard wolf by going in through a back way. Have you tried just going through the cave? You'll have some fighting with the spiders, but just push through-that might be quicker than the back way.

Antithesis · Apr 10, 2008, 10:37 PM // 22:37

I've yet to tackle FoW using 6 Heroes so thanks for posting proof that it'll work.

One thing - I recall Rac saying that Spear of Lightning doesn't get the damage bonus from Order of Pain.

Racthoh · Apr 10, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

All melee heroes, from what I've seen, do not perform as well as a caster or a ranged physical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

One thing - I recall Rac saying that Spear of Lightning doesn't get the damage bonus from Order of Pain.

I tested it with Mark of Pain which says physical damage and it didn't trigger. As Order of Pain has the same clause of physical damage I can only conclude that it doesn't.

Richardt · Apr 10, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I've never noticed SoL doing anything with Order of Pain.

distilledwill · Apr 11, 2008, 12:13 PM // 12:13

As mentioned, it might be an idea to replace the N/Mo with a N/Rt curser:

[build name="Curses Nec" box prof=Necromancer/Ritualist desc= Soulreaping=12+1 Curses=12+1+1 RestorationMagic=3 ][Spiteful Spirit][Reckless Haste][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Rip Enchantment][Pure Was Li Ming][Signet Of Lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

Either that or you could toy around with a build ive been working with, suggested by Dark Spirit:

[build name="Artificer Mesmer" box prof=Mesmer/Monk desc= Smitingprayers=10 Inspirationmagic=10+1+1 Dominationmagic=5+1 Fastcasting=10+1 ][Signet Of Judgment][Bane Signet][Castigation Signet][Hex Eater Signet][Signet Of Distraction][Mantra Of Inscriptions][Succor][Resurrection Signet][/build]

The above build includes loads of holy damage (for your undead mobs) interupts (for your Meteor Showing Hydras), Hex removal (for SS) and a maintained enchant (of your choice, i usually use Strength of Honour, but seeing as you probably wont have any Melee heroes in there I put in Succour to help your monk with energy). If you use full Artificers insignias and a shield this hero actually has armour which rivals a warrior.

Richardt · Apr 11, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Hmmm that artificer Mesmer looks interesting.

I'll have to try that at some point.

Spaced Invader · Apr 13, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Doing FoW NM with 6 heroes is really really really easy. Easier than pretty much any vanquishing or mission in HM (and most of those ain't too hard anyway). Only thing remotely challenging is the burning forest, because you have to pull and move carefully here.

It's kinda lengthy though and I think the running from A to B to C to Z makes up for at least 50-60% of the wasted time (I usually clock at something around 2:00h to 2:30h as well).
Guess I still have to optimize my quest completion sequence.

I usually do it with
-) My Mesmer (basically a Signet of Midnight/Epidemic-Warder with some additional stuff like Empathy, Cry of Frustration) who takes care of the melee monsters)
-) 2 SH Eles packed with AOE Fire Spells (no Fire Storm or Meteor Shower though), who actually are enough to kill any group with 2 monks in a few seconds
-) 2 N/Rt Healers (exactly like in the Sabway build... even without the Minion Bomber battery I still prefer them over any Monk heroes - the inherent e-management via SR is still quite great, and they are simply the masters of keeping health bars red)
-) 1 N/Rt who is a Channeling/Restoration hybrid
-) 1 Wildcard. I actually try different things here. A Mesmer hero to shut down the hydras in the burning forest, an additional SS hero, a paragon, a 3rd SH... thing is, it hardly makes a difference.
The 5 heroes above are already enough to be invincible and burn through everything within seconds. I am also amazed how well the hero AI works:
Whenever I go in to draw the Melees and blind/epidemic them, the ele heroes will always nuke the bunched up groups of monks/casters/rangers even if I don't call any targets.

Guess I should bring something with group movement speed buffs like "Charge!" or "Fall Back!"... that might significantly speed things up down there.

Antithesis · Apr 14, 2008, 04:50 AM // 04:50

I've been toying with a 6 Hero HM setup for vanquishing, yet to try it in FoW.

The heroes are N/Rt SS Curser, N/Rt Weapon of Fury Resto, N/Rt Weapon of Quickening Resto, N/Rt MM Channeler, P/W Stunning Strike and Me/Mo Vengeance Interrupter. The P and Me are my optionals in what is a pretty defensive setup. I might swap in a couple of MB/RI's for FoW.

Weapon of Fury and Weapon of Quickening have shown promise in testing as strong physical / caster buffs. WoF + Mark of Fury (on the SS) removes the need for an orders D/N as an adrenal engine, I didn't want any enchantment-reliant heroes and I only run WoF with a physical toon. WoQ buffs casters with a 33% recharge reduction, the Mes has 50% recharge in combo with Mantra of Recovery.

Are there enough corpses in FoW to power a minion engine? I guess i'll give it a go and post the builds if successful.

Richardt · Apr 14, 2008, 04:54 AM // 04:54

I've heard of people using MM's in FoW, but I don't think the Shadow guys leave corpses for you to mess with.

Shaz · Apr 14, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Are there enough corpses in FoW to power a minion engine? I guess i'll give it a go and post the builds if successful.

Only the skeletons on the Great Battlefield do not leave corpses I believe. Everywhere else there are corpses.

Racthoh · Apr 14, 2008, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaz

Only the skeletons on the Great Battlefield do not leave corpses I believe. Everywhere else there are corpses.

The problem is Shadow Beasts stealing bodies.

Shaz · Apr 14, 2008, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Well, before Evo and I got comfortable with FoW, the first 2 or 3 times we went in there, we used a MM as we didn't know what to expect. Both of us never do FoW at all before :P. It's certainly not the most optimize to use a MM, but other than the Great Battlefield, the MM seem to keep up 10 minions pretty well. It has SB, Aegis and a hex removal, so it wasn't totally useless at that point. Oh and we use it in both NM and HM also, if that make any difference.

Super Igor · Apr 14, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Uhm, Imo, take Rac's para hero concept with Sway, cake.

~Super Igor

~

Carboplatin · Apr 15, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Its not that i have problems doing it, its i want to kill faster.

I've tested 2 para + 1 SH ele which is a tiny bit fast but still over 2 hours.

post up if you can do it under 2 hours with out ursan/cons =D

i know there are some out there ^^

Antithesis · Apr 15, 2008, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Completed all quests on my first attempt in FoW (that's one less statue to get for the HoM) with the team i posted...dead easy, definitely could have been more offensive, I had no idea what was down there so covered most bases.

I'm not a fan of passive Monks, maybe take 3 x N/Rt with your Paras and Derv for healing, buffs and more damage. I ran the following bars alongside a MM, Mes and Para on a second a/c. Even without bombs going off Soul Reaping should be enough energy in NM.

[spiteful spirit][enfeebling blood][barbs][weaken armor][rigor mortis][mark of fury][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

[weapon of fury][splinter weapon][ancestors rage][mend body and soul][spirit light][protective was kaolai][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

[weapon of quickening][mend body and soul][spirit light][protective was kaolai][shadowsong][life][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

Weapon of Quickening's 33% recharge helps the SS. There should be plenty of healing on the N/Rt's so maybe drop the D/N (there's bucketloads of enchant stripping in FoW) for another Paragon, or a Barrage or BHA /Volley Ranger. If taking the D/N, drop Mark of Fury for Mark of Pain and Weapon of Fury for Icy Veins. Blood Ritual might be useful on the SS to power the WoF and WoQ if energy gets low. Hex removal would be useful too.

distilledwill · Apr 15, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Anithesis? who does your N/Rt maintain Weapon of Fury on?

Do they know to cast it on physical attackers and adrenaline dependant characters, or do you have to micro it?

Also, why do you use Mark Of Fury, Id think that with Weapon of Fury would be enought to keep the adrenaline flowing and it might be better to have an enchant removal such as [Rip Enchantment] or something?

not that im knocking it, it obviously works!